Posts by Island Man

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

Island Man

" Matt.24 does use parosia and comming interchangeably-vs.30,36,37,42,44,50."

Yes. Technically speaking - from a strictly linguistic standpoint - there is a difference between presence and coming. However, this techinical difference is mostly irrelevant since the presence starts with christ's coming. This is why the NT writers use the 2 terms interchangeably. Watchtower is making much ado about a technicality that is irrelevant in the context of the NT.

Also, contrary to Watchtower's claims, the events that Jesus mentions in Matthew 24, indicate, not that his presence is here, but that it is near.

"Likewise also YOU, when YOU see all these things, know that he is near at the doors." - Matthew 24:33

Jesus often illustrated/compared his return to that of a person (a master, a bridegroom or a thief) who returns/comes to a house, unexpectedly. His disciples are always pictured as the ones inside the house - as slaves or as virgins of the bridegroom. With this in mind, when is the visitor (Jesus) actually present? Is it not when he enters the house? Obviously so. When he's not in the house with the others he is absent. The expression "near at the doors" used at Matthew 24:33 appears to be an implicit allusion to one of these house visitation comparisons that Jesus often made. If he is near at the doors he is still outside and therefore not yet present - but just about to be. Thus contrary, to what Watchtower claims, Matthew 24 gives events that would indicate that Jesus' presence is near - not already here.

33

Psychological Effects of Color

by RedPillPopper in

jw
friends

for item #1 check out the color for trust.

totally ironic and you know the borg chose this on purpose.. .

http://goweloveit.info/entertainment/these-8-psychological-facts-will-help-you-understand-a-lot-more-about-life-5-is-a-game-changer/?utm_source=taboola&utm_medium=referral.

Island Man

So the gray cover of the new NWT is an attempt at JWs exhibiting a more neutral and calming presence to potential converts when carrying and reading the NWT in the field?

You know, gray is also a metaphor for that which is unclear/uncertain/questionable. When I see the gray NWT, the expression "gray area" comes to mind.

26

Parousia (again)

by leaving_quietly in

i noticed this during the wt study on sunday.. 1 cor 15:23: "but each one in his own proper order: christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the christ during his presence.

"the greek word for presence is "parousia", which needs no explanation here as to how wtbts views this word versus the rest of the world.. what i noticed was the striking contradiction made just a few verses later.. 1 cor 15:51,52: "look!

i tell you a sacred secret: we will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet.

Island Man

1 Corinthians 15:52 says the resurrection of those who belong to christ happens at the sounding of the last trumpet. Matthew 24:29-31 indicates that a great trumpet will sound at the time of Jesus' coming after the great tribulation. Logically, then, the last trumpet cannot sound before the great tribulation (because it wouldn't be the last trumpet, since a trumpet is to sound after the great tribulation) and therefore the resurrection of the anointed cannot occur before the great tribulation. The Watchtower teaching that the resurrection of the anointed already started around 1918, is thus proven to be false.

2 Peter 3:9 indicates that God is patient in bringing the promised presence because he is giving time for all to repent because he doesn't desire any to be destroyed. This clearly implies that when the presence begins there would not be any time to repent because it will begin destructively - not as a century of invisible rule from heaven, as the JWs falsely teach. 2 Peter chapter 3 repeatedly uses "presence" and "the day of the Lord (Jehovah, NWT)" interchangeably thus demonstrating that the presence starts dramatically with the destructive day of Jehovah and not as a century of invisible rule from heaven. The idea that the presence already started in 1914 and yet there has still been a whole century of time for people to repent, contradicts what is clearly implied by 2 Peter 3:9. Note, also, that according to JW theology which holds the start of the presence to be synonymous with the start of the last days, the ridiculers mentioned in 2 Peter 3:4 would be asking where is the presence while living during the presence, and this great irony is lost to the inspired writer, Peter. Clearly, the JWs are teaching rubbish.

James 5:7 tells christians to exercise patience until the presence of Jesus. This use of until implies that when the presence starts christians would no longer need to exercise patience because at that time they will at last experience deliverance from their trials by receiving their heavenly reward. (2 Thessalonians 2:1) But according to JW theology a christian who was alive when the presence started in 1914 would have to continue exercising patience throughout his life - for a whole century! - after the presence begun. JW theology invalidates the encouragement given at James 5:7.

1914 has royally screwed up the JWs eschatology.

16

Examining the Watchtower daily

by kairos in

...i mean scriptures.. .

wow, how did i miss this.. open up you examining the scriptures daily ( "daily text" ).

the booklet is about 80% watchtower comments.

Island Man

I know right. It's like this other misnomer: Congregation Bible Study, where they actually study, not the Bible, but a Watchtower publication.

16

Examining the Watchtower daily

by kairos in

...i mean scriptures.. .

wow, how did i miss this.. open up you examining the scriptures daily ( "daily text" ).

the booklet is about 80% watchtower comments.

Island Man

[DUPLICATE POST]

7

Jehovahs witnesses help releasing house slave in Ireland

by InquiryMan in

two jws doing the right thing.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/jehovahs-witnesses-saved-woman-from-domestic-slavery-298689.html.

.

Island Man

If the owner of that slave was a fellow JW, you can be sure that the chances of the JWs reporting him to the authorities would have been a lot smaller. They would have reported him to the elders and the elders would have handled the matter in-house and would not have reported it to the authorities for fear of "bringing reproach on the Jehovah's name and the organization". But when it's a worldly person they report it so that they can get good publicity. A lot of the good deeds JWs do - like returning a lost wallet - they do it, not out of genuine kindness, but just so they can boast about being one of Jehovah's Witnesses and that's why they returned it. They do good deeds as a cult advertising gimmick. Am not saying that's the case with the JWs in the story. But when you read experiences of JWs returning lost property, there's often a recurring theme where the JW boasts that he did it because he's a JW - not a christian, but a JW. In other words he did the good deed as an advertising gimmick.

116

Creationist Should Dismiss Genesis Quickly

by Coded Logic in

chris tann,.

in your earlier post you seemed to be under the impression that genesis and science were somehow compatible .

however, the truth is the two are not reconcilable at all.

Island Man

To point to the complexity of universe as indisputable evidence of an intelligent creator, only to turn around and then claim that this intelligent creator is himself uncreated is oxymoronic to the highest degree. Appealing to the notion of there being an infinitely powerful, infintely wise, uncreated, eternally pre-existing person to explain the origin of our complex universe, is therefore comparable to a foolish man who borrows a million dollars to pay off a hundred dollar debt. In his imagination he is content that he has resolved the hundred dollar debt, but he is too foolish to see the reality that he has actually created a much higher debt to pay off. For the explanative debt incurred to account for the existence of our universe is far less than the explanative debt incurred to account for the existence of the God that theists use to "pay off" the explanative debt for the universe's existence.

103

Another subliminal picture in the WT!!!!

by DATA-DOG in

i just happend to wonder if the current issue had any hidden goodies.

imagine my delight!.

a gold star to the first person to correctly identify the image!.

Island Man

"It's called Pareidolia: Seeing Faces in Unusual Places"

I double - no, triple - second that! You guys are letting your imaginations get the better of you. A person can take just about any bit of art and spot unintentional "subliminal" images in them if that's what he's looking for.

4

what do you think to this odd application of deu 25:4?

by purrpurr in

at a recent meeting the scripture deu 25:4 was cited "do not muzzle a threshing bull".. it was applied to how the elders in the cong should be obeyed submissively because, they said, to go against the elders authority would be like muzzling a threshing bull???

just one of those times when i'm secretly going " huh?!

what??".

Island Man

That is a clear misapplication of scripture. The underlying principle behind that text is that "the worker is worthy of his wages". Paul applied this very scripture to make the point that those ministering are deserving/entitled to benefit physically/materially for their hard work. (1 Corinthians 9:3-10)

7

Jehovahs witnesses help releasing house slave in Ireland

by InquiryMan in

two jws doing the right thing.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/jehovahs-witnesses-saved-woman-from-domestic-slavery-298689.html.

.

Island Man

"They did a great thin[g] am[] glad the slave is now free. i know of many sincere and nice JWs...they are people too just caught up in a different coercive situation only they may not know it....yet."

Yeah, it's kind of ironic though - mental slaves who believe in an ancient book that supports/condones physical slavery, work to free a physical slave.